Selling a property in France - 2021
Introduction
I’ve sold several properties over the years and decided rather late in the process that a chronicle of what happens could be brought into a blog. This time I am early enough in the cycle to relate some of the experience.
Location of property
My property is in the department of the Lot, roughly 2/3 of the way down to the Midi some 170 km north of Toulouse. It consists of 2 houses, 4000 sq m of land, a swimming pool, large pond, small pond, 5 lawns...... When ready some some photos can be seen a separate address I will post on this site.
Estate agent - procedures
An approach was made to an estate agent now known as Human Immobilier in a local town, St Cere. The agent DP (leave names out) explained the system of selling: requirement to sign a mandat authorising them to show potential buyers around the property, allowing me to use other agents or find buyers myself but the agency had to show buyers the property; explained the fees levied (5% of selling price) to be paid by buyer plus notary fees (approx 8%) to be paid by buyer; how the agency would make a valuation of the property but allowed me to place my own sale price. The valuation is disclosed to me but not to a potential buyer.
Furthermore a survey called a Diagnostic Technique Immobilier (DTI) was required (completed on 29 June), a report on the fosses septiques (there are 2, one for each building) by an outfit called Service Public de l’Assainissement Non Collectif (SPANC): report awaited.
The mandat was signed on 30 June, 2021. A professional photographer was commissioned by the agency to take photos inside and out. The agency pays. The agency selects the photos. Photos taken on 13 July. The agency’s website still does not show the property, at 29 July.
Another point to note: the office I visited in St Cere is not the one in whose jurisdiction my property falls so another office has taken it on, from Gramat. Both towns are equidistant from my property! That said, persons from both offices have seen the property before it has been shown to potential clients.
I have selected a selling price higher than the agent’s valuation. In my view the property is worth more than the agency suggests - but it all comes down to what a buyer will pay.
The DTI - which comprises an examination of asbestos (amiante), lead (plomb), gas (gaz), electricity, threats from flooding, forest fires, radon risk, earthquake - is extremely thorough. One of my houses dates from 1809 (or parts) and the other is a converted barn, built before 1949, converted into a dwelling some 30-40 years ago. So it’s all old! Quite a number of remarks made about almost everything inspected which do not necessarily have to be rectified by me unless dangerous. A flu outlet from my heating boiler was so judged: it has been rectified already. It becomes a matter of judgement by a seller as to whether recommendations are followed immediately or whether he leaves them to a buyer to sort out. The DPE report is revealed to the buyer before he signs the compromis de vente and pays a deposit (on a price agreed between buyer and seller via the agent).
The DTI inspector requires continuous invoices for heating / gas / electricity consumption going back 5 years to enable a DPE assessment to be made. This appears in a property sale notice as energy consumption rated A (good) to G (poor). My invoices are not continuous ( although I may be able to complete the complete cycle for electricity) so no assessment can be made for one house. For the other, because it is not inhabited for 12 months per year, an assessment of consumption cannot be made. The rules are strict on this, apparently.
at 30/7/21
Potential buyer visit
Property visited by potential buyer; shown round by agent. We are not present by choice. Agent later reported that visitor liked our houses but prefers another location.
Another visit scheduled for today.
at 31/7/21
Agency summons
DP required to see us in his agency. Explained that yesterday’s visitor, a lady, liked the property and made an offer subject to a condition, namely, that her husband see the property by 16 August. The offer is good enough so we accepted agreeing to the condition. We signed an agreement. This offer is now fixed and the buyers either buy at the agreed price or withdraw. They cannot change their offer. DP said they cannot make offers on another property before the suspension period is over but I do not see how that can work. Who would police it? What’s to stop the buyers just saying that they withdraw their offer when the husband has viewed our property and say they do not want it? At the same time we cannot accept other offers until 16 August as we are bound by the condition too.
Nonetheless, it’s encouraging! The lady said our property is a “coup de coeur”. Hope her man agrees!
DP mentioned that the property has not yet been advertised on their site because he has not yet obtained the the DTI report - which he said he would obtain. I have emailed it to him today (all 90 pages of it). For the agency to advertise the sale of the property they are required to display energy consumption and greenhouse gas effects. These are in the DTI report, shown as "vierge", ie there is not enough data for a rating.
at 1/8/21
Moving from a large property to a smaller one means disposing of furniture and other things. I have used leboncoin.fr for this, sometimes with favourable results, sometimes articles fail to sell especially if they are more expensive. English furniture where I live does not sell - at least on le bon coin. The local “troc” shop had no interest.
I have, therefore, resorted to offering some items free on le bon coin. Reaction is usually very swift! Some folk, when collecting items, offer a little something in return, eg a bottle of wine, some vegetables from their garden (c’est normal). Now, in my experience - and I have lived in France for a total of 20+ years - if you invite a French person for lunch / dinner they will bring a gift, sometimes quite expensive gifts. Most just take the free items and offer thanks.
The local charity shop, Secours populaire, has been the recipient of many things.
At 14/8/21
The person who made the offer, a woman, and we agreed, asked for a condition that no further clients would view the property until her husband had seen it. A cut off date of 16 August was arranged by which time he should have viewed and made a decision to either continue with the current offer or stop.
On the 14 August he and his wife viewed. The word from the agent after they left was that they liked the property and would meet him on 16 August for further discussions. At present, this is encouraging!
A few days ago I gave the agent a list of items we could leave for them to buy, or even, have. As well as price of the property there could be further negotiations.
The SPANC report on the fosses septiques arrived. As expected, not very good because the fosses do not conform to the “normes”. What has worked perfectly satisfactorily for 50 years or more are no longer judged appropriate and need to be changed by a new owner within one year at considerable expense. For our land surrounded by countryside inhabited every 6 weeks or so by cows, horses, it makes no sense. One fosse is buried by 40 cm of tarmac and I do not even know exactly where it is. So I asked the good women who inspected the other fosse (as each house has its own) to tell me where it is. At a later date she reappeared, put a spherical sensor of ping-pong ball size attached by fishing line into the loo bowl. After several flushings she reckoned it was in position, went outside with some fancy instrument which could detect the location of the fosse – but not necessarily the middle nor the inspection cover. She disclosed the top of the tank is at 40 cm depth and the liquid inside 20 cm below that. Now it's up to me (or a new owner) to hack through the tarmac to discover the tank. Is it round or rectangular I asked. No idea came the reply. If 40 years old it might be round. Diameter? No idea.
SPANC report passed to agent. Cost of 2 inspections E150 per house.
Diagnostic and SPANC reports to viewed by potential buyers. Cost of DPE E901 for 2 houses, possibly recoverable from agency if property sold by them.
The updated electricity bills I sent the DPE inspector were not enough for a rating because I have not supplied my propane gas bills. I do not have them all for 3 years, thus rating given is “vierge”. Quite a few other properties have the same rating I have noticed.
at 15/8/21
Transfer of Residency (ToR)
Have I mentioned ToR? No! Another hurdle to jump over along with DTI, SPANC, negotiations with the estate agent, negotiations with a potential buyer over house price and, perhaps, personal effects, discussions with the buyer over whether they want to take over the propane gas tank + propane contained therein (for central heating). But I digress!
A move of one's goods and chattels from France to the UK requires UK customs clearance before they can enter the country. As I understand it this requirement dates from Brexit date for folk moving to the UK from the EU. (It almost certainly is required for movement from other countries, eg USA, India)
I have been informed by a UK removal firm that I have to submit a list of all effects I want to import into the UK to a gov.uk agency, to wit border control. I did this 2 days ago and now await clearance from them. They will assess any tax they consider due on my goods – which I assess to be zero as it's all “old” stuff, ie owned by us for months going on decades and most had been exported from the UK some years ago by us.
The list plus UK clearance is passed to the removal firm who then show the documents to border control when they arrive in England. The list can be amended after initial submission.
Removal
Estimates awaited from UK firms for the move. I decided against using a French company: language negotiation easier in England if the firm is English and they will be more experienced than a French firm I believe.
L
At 24/8/21
It's been a day of several developments......
House
The agent sent me the roofer's estimate: over E7000. I phoned the agent to see if he had spoken to the potential buyer who asked for the roof to be looked at. The agent is away sick! No further advance there. I may have to consider shaving my price if this estimate causes the buyer to vacillate over his existing offer. I have just calculated the costs my buyer may have to pay over my selling price. I may disclose them at a later date. I have gleaned from the agent what his overall budget is likely to be. Useful to know!
Removal
The government has authorised the import of our goods. No mention of any taxes to pay at this point. The authority has to be passed to the removal company with which I signed a contract yesterday. Marine insurance is a problem. How do you estimate the value of furniture for insurance which is antique? We shall revisit this problem later.
Car
I have bought a car in the UK, to be collected tomorrow. Payment for it was fouled up for a while as the phone line and internet connection at our house stopped working at 2330 last night. As we are in the country I have to travel 10 km to a site which I can use. Orange tell me it will be fixed within 72 hrs!
Car insurance is now the isssue. Quotes awaited on that from an insurance broker.
At 27/8/21
Internet
Internet still not functioning! Fault is some way off from my house. Another 7 days to wait until it is fixed but Orange have offered me an Airbox and 200gb of data provided I travel 40 km to collect it from an Orange shop where I know one can wait an hour for service! Never knew what an Airbox is - but I have now found out through research elsewhere.
Car
Bought, UK taxed (£210) and insured (£900+ to include 3 drivers), collected, ready for us to visit the UK and bring it to France.
House
The estate agent, JL, back at work, informed me that the buyer seems not to be fazed by the roof repair estimate. JL said today he will be preparing the compromis de vente on Monday, 30 August. I have informed him I want to see it before anybody signs it. I will be looking to see if there are any conditions the buyer wants included.
Removal
The ToR office, in their authority, wrote no import before 1 December. If the compromis de vente is satisfactory and signed on 1 September I shall look to bring the import date forward.
At 3/9/21
Have agreed with HMRC, who approve the ToR application, to bring forward the date of import of my goods. An updated list has been sent as packing continues. The removers have been given the same list and I have proposed 4-8 October for collecting our effects.
Compromis de vente
Two days ago the draft compromis de vente was sent to me. It seems OK to me. I had a couple of questions for the estate agent one of which related to the size of deposit which I considered rather low. I had always thought it was supposed to be 10% of the purchase price. In this instance the buyer is depositing his depot de guarantie of only 4% of the purchase price. The agent said that a sum is not laid down by law so a buyer can select whatever sum he chooses.
After payment of the deposit the buyer has right of retraction ( = cooling off period) of 10 days.
The agent told me we could sign the compromis today, 3 September, if the buyer has given him procuration (=power of attorney) as he and his wife are in Versailles and will not be attending.
Later 0n 3/9/21
Compromis signed this afternoon with the acte de jouissance ( = completion) set for 20 November in the notary's office. If we were ready to move out in, say, October could we do so? Our agent, JL, said probably not as it takes about 2 months for the French legal system to grind through its procedures between compromis signing and the completion. He said there is some flexibility in the completion date either before or after the written date; 10 days or so.
It has taken from 30 June, engagement of estate agent, till 3 September, signing of compromis which is swift in my view. I was well prepared for the sale to take 2 years. However, it's not all over yet, not until the final payment is in our account!
Notary
The notary takes over now it seems. She will make contact in a couple of weeks, draw up the completion papers and bills, calculate the plus value ( = CGT) due, notify the Mairie.
at 13/9/21
Depot de guarantie
Buyer to make a depot de guarantie - about 4% in his case - and he has 10 days from receipt of the signed compromis for cooling off (= retraction) after which the deposit becomes, in principle, non-refundable. There are one or 2 exceptions.
It seems the buyer is prepared to have roof repairs done without asking to negotiate a new price for the property.
Car insurance
Now in the UK having brought over a car load of effects. Have collected UK registered car. UK insurance firm have allowed 5 years NCD based on French insurance company's releve d'information, translated into English. My UK broker can arrange the full UK NCD of 60% which is allowed after 9 years without a claim. My French insurers have now been able to update evidence of no claims with them going back to 2012 so I have passed on the additional releves d'information to my UK broker. Green Cards are no longer required for UK cars entering Europe, merely an insurance certificate which has a few words on the back in French, Spanish, German, Italian. My UK insurance company (AVIVA) must know my date of departure for France and I have 90 days cover in Europe which can be increased to 180 days without an extra premium.
Travel / PCR tests
To get into the UK we required a PCR test each (= E98), a booking in the UK prior to travel to our home and PCR day 2 tests (= £218) plus overnight ferry cost (=£275), total £577. We return to France on 17 September; no tests required as we have the passe sanitaire and can sign an attestation as required by the French government. Our cartes de sejour should ensure that the 90 / 180 day rule does not apply to us.
at 20/9/21
UK visit over. No border control problems getting into UK nor into France on our return by Eurotunnel train.
Notaire
The notaire, having been informed of our move by our estate agent, has written to me. She wants to know / see the following:
Latest invoice for central heating boiler maintenance. There should be a boiler man coming tomorrow.
Are there smoke detectors in the houses? Yes.
Whether there is a fireplace and whether the chimney has been swept. Invoice required. Chimney has been blocked up by us for about 7 years.
Have we had any major work done in the last 10 years? Invoices required. I need clarification as to what exactly “gros travaux” means.
Reveal what has been done to comply with safety rules for the swimming pool. I have just bought a new alarm as the old one was not satisfactory. The new owners can install it as we shall be closing the pool in a day or 2 and covering it with a winter cover.
There are remarks concerning capital gains tax. The French property is a secondary residence. The notaire stipulates that we must employ a fiscal representative as our main residence is outside the EU. This is required if the property is to be sold for more than E150,000 and has been owned for less than 30 years and also whether or not there is CGT (= plus-value) to pay.
As I wish to have clarification on some points I have arranged to meet the notaire in a few days time.
Estate agent
The agent has confirmed that the depot de guarantie has been paid into their account.
He is also sending the buyer a list I have given him of the items we are offering with the property. I hope the buyer will advise me expeditiously of what he would like.
Garden maintenance continues as does the rain!
Removal
My removal company has come up with dates for collection of our goods and chattels, 6 October, and delivery, 11 October. We have been invited to pay them! Done!
At 29/9/21
Notaire
Visited the notaire who clarified what “gros travaux” are: major structural changes, eg to walls, bathrooms, kitchens; significant electrical work.......
She asked for bills most of which I could supply and she seemed quite happy with what I have provided. She said we do not need to meet again until the final acte is signed. She also advised that the findings of my fiscal representative will be sent by her to the notaire. I am waiting to hear back from a firm known as SARF, based in Paris, who undertake to act as fiscal representatives. My bank, when asked, stated they did not do such work.
The boiler has been maintained, invoice passed to the notaire.
Estate agent
My agent has passed my list of articles offered to the buyers but I have not heard from them. I now have their email address to enable me to deal with them direct.
Removal
Passage booked to UK for us to go and meet our furniture. The UK has now abandoned the requirement for a PCR test before leaving France but we still require a test on day 2 in the UK and evidence of a booking to be shown to Brittany Ferries before we get on to the ship and a reference number has to entered onto the Passenger Location Form required by HM government. Cost of this test this time is £55 / person: better tan the £109 / person I paid last time! Test to be a self test and posted to the analysts. The government did not ask to see the result of the last tests – and nor did anybody else!
At 4/10/21
Fiscal representative
I have heard back from SARF who will represent me. I need to provide various documents and then I will be given an estimate for their work.
They need:
- A copy of the compromis de vente;
- A copy of the purchase contract when I bought the property;
- If I have had work done on the property originals of the invoices and estimates, and,
- Evidence of payment (bank statements).
I have replied asking for confirmation that this execise is to establish liability for CGT, if any. I have sent scanned copies of 1 & 2 above. In respect of 3 I have said invoices are available but do they need really them in original. If so , they will have to be sent by post and returned in due course, and pointing out that these documents have been seen (and copied) by my notaire, and that these are the only bills I have. (There are probably 20+ invoices.)
Finally, I observed that we were in full house moving mode at the moment: furniture and effects scheduled to be collected in 2 days and we would be in UK to receive it all and returning to France on 15 October.
Removal
Text message today to say movers would come 24 hours earlier than scheduled. We are ready!
New owners
Phone call from the new owners received on Saturday. They asked a few questions, eg about swimming pool: what state is it in? I said closed for the winter.....and I think the monsieur was relieved. He clarified that they would not be living here full time as he and his wife both worked in Versailles. He will let me know whether or not they will take on the propane gas contract from Butagaz (for heating).
He agreed that they will take on all the articles I am giving away with the property – which is a relief as we do not have to worry about their disposal.
At 11/10/21
The fiscal representative has not responded after one week. The notaire wants to know who is my fiscal representative and how it's going.
The removal firm, due last Wednesday, 6 October, sent an SMS 2 days before to say they were ahead of schedule and would arrive a day early. They duly arrived a day early and had all our effects loaded in just over 3 hours.
We departed the property 2 days later for the UK to meet the removal vehicle on 11 October ensuring that we had enough fuel in the car before leaving France because there is a delivery shortage of fuel in the UK. This time no PCR test required before leaving France but a Day 2 test required in England: cost £55 / person, better than £109 each last time.
No word yet from the new owner as to whether or not he will take on the propane gas contract.
At 14/10/21
Fiscal rep has now responded. Fee to be E1500. She requires a copy of the whole of the original purchase document, the whole of the compromis de vente (each about 8-12 pages), an attestion sur l'honneur that all building / improvement works done during my owners occupation were actually completed and paid for.
New owner does not wish to take on the contract for propane gas. I must arrange removal of the propane tank with Butagaz.
At 20/10/21
Propane gas tank
Central heating in one house is by using propane gas stored in a 1000+ litre tank. The new owner does not wish to take on the contract for supply of propane from Butagaz so I must have the tank removed. Contact today with Butagaz indicates that they must contact the future owner before they will remove the tank. As I understand from Butagaz they will not remove the tank until after the property sale has been concluded.
I find this strange and a slight cause for concern. Why? I am winding up my contract with Butagaz which, in effect, has nothing to do with the new owner and I am concerned about what may happen during the removal of a large tank. It has been in place for some 30 years, is behind a low wall, accessible from one direction only, just beyond trees which are full size now, across a lawn which also has an old tamarisk tree growing in it and which could obstruct a crane getting into position to effect the lifting of the tank. I do not wish to know of damage done to vegetation during the ownership of the new buyer (even though, it could be argued, he has brought this on himself by not continuing the contract). Better such damage occurs during my ownership, I reckon.
An alternative option? Leave the tank in place and I forfeit my deposit of E1028 paid when I bought the property.
Car
Second car sold after 13 weeks; sold through a garage acting on my behalf. They charge a fee for this, of course.
Currency movement
With a property and car sales come some funds. To move them to the UK is complicated when larger sums than (my) normal are involved. My bank has explained what happens. I suspect that I may not get the best exchange rate on any particular transaction as it takes the bank 2 days to carry out a transaction. I try to get quotes from 2 different exchange companies. They offer better rates than a bank doing the currency transaction and on large sums this can make a difference of hundreds or thousands of pounds when converted depending on the amount being exchanged.
I need to see the euro to GBP rate increase! Today it's E1 buying £ 0.84 (middle market rate) so, say, E50000 will buy £ 42000. If the rate rises to 0.86 E50000 will buy £43000.
And then what?! Invest, buy property, crypto (for some), donate to offspring, deposit in a bank / BS (bad rates!).......? Or do what the “super wealthy” do – according to the Panama Papers and Pandora Papers?
Completion
Once the propane tank issue is resolved we can propose a date for completion to the notaire which has to be agreed by her and the new owners who indicated to me that they would like to be present for the signing of the final act. The fiscal rep's findings can be resolved, if necessary, after completion. She sends her findings direct to the notaire. If there is any argument with the Administration fiscale it can be continued after the sale.
At 21/10/21
Propane gas tank / completion
Another option for the propane tank: empty it of gas, purge it and then cut it up to remove it. It should not be left in place whatever the solution.
I decided to ask the estate agent to help in the negotiations with Butagaz. He said he would verify with the the buyer to make quite sure they did not want to take out a contract with Butagaz. He said he would also liaiase with the notaire and the buyer over a date for completion which is, at the moment, set for 20 November.
Now, a new piece of information has come to light both from talking to the estate agent today and to my neighbour who lives some 500m away and runs a farm. His family own the land all around us. Apparently, if I have understood all the information I have been given in French, when a compromis de vente is signed the notaire is advised who in turn advises the local Mairie. This may take a week or so. From about the date of that notification people in the immediate vicinity have the right to ask to buy the property at the price asked for by the seller and such a person has first refusal. A different price may not be offered so this takes priority over any other “non vicinity” people making a bid. This period lasts 2 months. I have been told that a local person buying in these circumstances is not a usual occurrence. Extrapolating from the end of this approximate 2 month period the estate agent planned the date for completion, ie 20 November.
At 29/10/21
Propane gas tank removal
The agence immobilier contacted Butagaz who have confirmed that they will deal with the gas tank after completion either by its removal or, if not possible, by cutting it up after siphoning off the remaining gas for which I may be given credit after all their charges for doing this. They also have my original deposit of E1028 from when I made my first contract with them upon purchase of the property. The buyer is content for this to happen.
Fiscal representative
I spoke to the fiscal representative in Paris. She assured me that the notaire who certified our original purchase would have the original signed purchase document which I was never given, This, by law, must be retained by the notaire. Yesterday I received a copy of said document by email. The fiscal representative was able to tell me what the plus-value figure isand she will inform the notaire.
A date for the acte final should now be able to be arranged. It cannot be before 13 November thus allowing the full 2 months to elapse between signing of the compromis de vente + buyer's period of retraction.
At 4/11/21
Fiscal representation
Fiscal representative has sent the plus-value calculation to my notaire. The whole document runs to 10 pages! To me the important part is where the plus-value amount is disclosed. The contract I have with SARF (Societe Accreditee de Representation Fiscale) runs for 4 years and one month and if there is any dispute raised by the fiscal authorities SARF represent my case. Charge for this is E1500, a one off payment.
The plus-value has been calculated as follows:
Sale price of property less work done to the property during my ownership (which is shown as 15% of original cost price) less SARF fee
less
Cost of property when acquired plus purchase expenses (notary, agency fee).
There are also many other lines of calculations amongst which are a rebate for the number of years the property has been owned over 5 years and which shows a reduction rate of 72%. I am not going into all the detail on the form!
At 6/11/21
Completion
The notary made contact yesterday to discuss the date for completion. I agreed 22 November. An earlier date was not possible with the buyers who wish to attend in person.
The notary had various questions, eg date chimney last swept (it's not in use), what will happen to propane tank and who will pay for its removal / cutting up.
By chance today I met one of the men who did some major decoration on one house 6 years ago and told hime we were selling. He told me he knew. How? The notary had contacted him to verify he had done work on the property. She was in possession of the decoration / work bills I had sent her a few weeks ago. I do not know whether she had contacted other businesses who have done work on the property.
At 9/11/21
Completion, a twist
It was Friday, 5th November, about 16h15, when the notaire 'phoned to ask if 22nd November was convenient for completion. Agreed.
She wanted a copy of my Taxes Foncieres 2021 invoice so she could calculate what the buyer would have to pay for the remainder of the year after completion. Agreed.
Having waited for many days to know the completion date ( I was quite flexible) it was, essentially, for the notaire and buyer to sort out. Consequently, now with a fixed date and time, I arranged a hotel locally to stay in, a hotel in the Loire region for a night en passage (paid for) to a northern French port to cross the Channel the next night. Ferry booked from St Malo for a night crossing (paid for). In addition the gas company notified, water and electricity, house insurance company informed, PCR day 2 test in UK arranged, 'phone company notified to close their contract. My wife even booked a food delivery to our house in the UK for the day of our arrival.
On Saturday I emailed the buyer inviting him and his wife to come to the property on the Sunday afternoon the day before the signing as there are various things it is easier to show and explain in how the place is run, eg swimming pool. No reply.
I am not permanently connected to the internet but had seen my emails at 09h00 on Monday, 8th November. I was not expecting to be hearing anything further about the sale. By chance, in the afternoon about 17h00, I looked at my emails and found one from the notaire asking if it would be convenient to move the signing 3 days earlier to Friday, 19 November. The buyer wants the change. It is not!!
Having calmed down I emailed the notaire, told her of the inconvenience and wrote that I would see what could be done about changing all my arrangements. At this writing (Tuesday, 9th November) I am not inclined to change anything but I did raise questions yesterday with some of the agencies. Replies awaited. I will visit the notaire.
At 14/11/21
Completion
The notaire's office advised that the buyer had to change the completion date but they could not understand why. On Tuesday evening, 9th November, the buyer telephoned me, indicated - if I understood correctly – that he had a medical appointement on 22nd November so had to propose a change of date for completion, I decided to accommodate him, agreed the 19th November for signature, and altered all my arrangements which turned out to be easier than I anticipated. The ferry cost £15 more for a week-end crossing, hotels' bookings altered without penalty, lateral flow tests already depatched to await our arrival.
So, we were back into smooth waters until........
…...a leak
Yesterday, a Saturday, I inspected the attic to see if all was well. It was not! There is a water leak from a pipe join under the water heater. A bucket is in place. So far the plumber has not responded to several 'phone calls. I suspect the leak is from a perished washer but it needs expert attention.
At 24/11/21
Sale completed on 19 November!
The leak
The plumber phoned back at 21h30 on a Sunday night, agreed to come round the next morning and by 11h00 the leak was repaired. Fault? A perished washer.
Completion
On 18 November, the day before the signing of the final acte de vente I received by email from the notaire a document entitled “Projet”. It is the draft of the acte final: it runs to 37 pages + annexes!
I read through most of it, notified the notaire of 2 minor adjustments needed. Interestingly, I thought, was the history of who had owned the property, all their names, dob, date of marriage and place, going back to the 1930s. There was much else besides, not being enumerated here.
Before the signing the buyer and I had agreed he would come to the property before the signing so I could explain how I managed various activities and he could have a good look round, ask questions...... Having had a 6 hour drive from Versailles and then an hour of talk I think he was somewhat overwhelmed by it all! However, he seemed very content.
On, then, to the notaire's office at which were present my wife and I as co-owners, the buyer representing his wife and himself, the estate agent and the notaire. The latter, over the course of an hour, went through the 37 pages of the acte de vente + some annexes and including one or 2 modifications which became necessary during the meeting. Several supporting documents needed to be signed including the declaration of plus – value, and, finally, of course, the acte itself by buyer and sellers. Keys were handed over. The notaire made clear that Taxes Foncieres are divided pro-rata between seller and buyer but Taxe Habitation is paid for the whole year by the owner of the property on 1 January. My 2021 bill arrived yesterday (and it indicated that in 2023 there would be no Taxe Habitation!)
My house insurance can only be cancelled by my sending an attestation de vente, signed by the notaire to the insurance company.
The propane gas tank will be removed / cut up within 3 months all at my expense.
Summary
Some time lines:
Date we first contacted estate agent : 8 June, 2012
Two visits to property by potential buyers between 8 June and 30 July. Not what they required.
29 June: Dossier Technique Immobilier / diagnostic immobilier visit
21 July: Inspection of fosses septiques
Visit on 30 July: potential buyer (lady on her own) made conditional offer, the condition being that her husband view the property no later than 16 August. We accepted the conditional offer. He visited and agreed verbally that he would buy.
3 September: compromis de vente signed.
1 October: contact made with SARF, ie fiscal representative, to calculate plus-value
19 November: acte de vente signed
The sale took 23 weeks from start to finish.
At Saturday 27/11/21
….et encore
“It's not over till the fat lady sings” - and she ain't done singin' yet!
I wrote a few days ago that I thought we were into smooth waters. Well, we're not!
Receipt of funds
The notaire, at the signing “ceremony”, said sale funds would be transferred to my bank 3 or 4 working days later. She had had my bank's RIB for over 2 weeks. On the 5th day, yesterday, I enquired whether or not the transfer had been effected. A reply from the notaire's accountant's department indicated it had not. This lady revealed that my wife had to receive her half share of the proceeds into her account and mine to my account as we were co-owners of the property.
I wondered why the notaire's office, who are the supposed experts in handling property sales whereas I am not, did not inform me that the funds needed to be split. This would not have been a great issue if we had known: my wife would not have closed her bank account.
Today I have proposed a solution: my wife gives the notaire authorisation to transfer all funds into my account. I have scanned and sent by email such authorisation. However, I suspect this will not do! My next option is to contact my wife's bank to see if it will re-open her account.
At 1/12/21
Enfin.....
The authorisation worked and all funds were paid to me today. Excellent!
Just have to watch the exchange rate now! A deal done yesterday was at E1 buying £0.8325 done by talking to a dealer rather than an online transaction. The dealer advised that by talking to them one could often get a better rate.
At 28/1/2022
Ongoing wrinkles
Nine weeks have elapsed since completion. Two matters are still outstanding:
There has been no reimbursement from the estate agents for the diagnostic fee (E901) in spite of me contacting them at least twice. This was an offer made by the agents to make it more attractive to do business with them. I was warned it might take some time to be paid but 9 weeks - and counting - is ridiculous.
The removal of the gas tank by Butagaz has still not taken place, at least to my knowledge as I have not heard about reimbursement of gas left in the tank and settlement of the original deposit (E1028) either in their favour or mine depending on cost of removal. I'm not unduly concerned here as the balance is likely to be against me!
Rate of exchange is moving the wrong way! The latest deal was done at E1 buying £0.8250. The UK economy is doing better than the EU my fx dealer tells me.
At 16/2/2022
Wrinkle - diagnostic fee
After some 12 weeks and 4 emails to the estate agent asking for payment of the diagnostic fee I was advised 10 days ago that payment would be made last week. It wasn't! However, I did receive E655 in my account 2 days ago. I queried why not the full E901. The estate agent apparently enquired of the firm which carried out the survey and was given a preferential billing (facturation preferentielle). I was advised by the estate agent this is the reason for only paying 72% of the sum demanded.
Wrinkle - Propane tank
No word from Butagaz so I presume the tank has not been removed. I remain silent on the matter.
at 16/12/22
A surprise!
My purpose here is to add another entry concerning a propane gas tank in my garden. The buyer of my property did not wish to take on the contract I had so the gas tank needed to be removed by Butagaz at my expense, probably by draining off the remaining propane and cutting up the tank (now surrounded by trees). I anticipated that my original deposit of E1028 paid in 2004 would be lost, the refund for unused propane would not be credited and the cost of removal would be greater than the refund of deposit. I, therefore, decided silence was my best option!
To my surprise 4 weeks ago (note that this is a full year after the acte de vente was signed) an email arrived from Butagaz advising me my account with them is in credit E1700! A RIB was sent (by post, not email) and they advised payment would be made to my bank account within 15 days - which it was.
There’s a moral to this too: keep your French bank account open after your property sale for any after sale adjustments which might become necessary (assuming you are leaving France for good, of course).
gb
at 23/3/23
Taxe d’habitation
At end December 2022 I discovered my French bank account had been debited E992 by some tax office on 27 December. Immediate research with the details given revealed little so with recourse to bills from 2020 and 2021 I was able to work out that I had been charged taxe d’habitation for 2022, 14 months after my property was sold. I found out what office had made the erroneous charge it being a tax office in Figeac.
I wrote by post to them to reclaim the tax about which I had not been advised in advance: no invoice. I included all possible evidence of the sale of the property, eg attestation de vente, evidence of UK residence.......
No reply was forthcoming so I wrote again by post (impossible to do this by email as I was not registered on the appropriate site): no response.
Exasperated, I emailed SARF in Paris for help. No, they do not deal with such matters. Where next? The notary’s office - who did help.
The notary’s assistant contacted the tax office by ‘phone which agreed an erroneous payment had been made. (The tax office refer to it as “reglement d’un degrevement sur votre taxe d’habitation de 2022”.) She also forwarded all my previous documents and, eventually, after I enquired of the Figeac tax office in February 2023 when repayment would be made I was told, somewhat vaguely, that I would be refunded in March or April.
On 22 March, some 10 weeks after my initial letter, I received a cheque from the Tresor Public for E992.
So, thus ends
The Curious Affair of the Sale of a Property in France